O'Sullivan of Meentoges, Co.Kerry
O'Sullivan/Sullivan is
the most common surname in Munster,
and the most common surname in Co.Kerry,
and very hard to trace as a result (so many false hits).
Two families of this name, even in the same
townland, may not be related.
This family may be related to
O'Sullivan of Killarney
through O'Sullivan of Cappanacush, near Kenmare.
The previous may be related to
Sullivan of near Killarney.
There is no known connection to
O'Sullivan of near Listowel.
- References:
- Sources yet to be consulted:
- Royal or State Archives in Leuven (RAL).
Records of Old University of Louvain (OUL).
For Fr. Mark Sullivan see:
-
811,3, p.45.
- 810, f.29r.
- 286, f.25v.
In 1699,
Fr. John Sullivan
set up a
"bourse" (bursary) at the
Irish Pastoral College in Louvain,
Belgium,
for his relations "of the second degree".
As a result, anyone who took up the bourse is suspected to be a relation of Fr. John Sullivan.
If one of our family took it up or was eligible, it would imply
that Fr. John Sullivan is an ancestral uncle or ancestral 1st cousin
of our O'Sullivans.
Reasons to think we are not connected to the family of the bourse:
- Those Sullivans were from Kenmare. Ours are from E of Killarney.
- When our Fr. Mark Sullivan
went to Louvain, he did not take up the bourse.
- Our Fr. Mark is NOT the student in 1782:
-
[Prendergast, part 1, 1898]
says "M. Sullivan" availed of the bourse in 1782.
-
[King, 1912]
identifies this as our Fr. Mark Sullivan in 1782.
-
But our Fr. Mark went to Louvain earlier (matric 1770).
-
[Louvain database of students]
shows "M. Sullivan" is in fact
"Michael Joseph O'Sullivan"
who is
listed
(see screenshot)
for 1781 and 1782.
It notes he got the bourse:
"IPC Leuven scholarship J. Sullivan"
(Irish Pastoral College).
-
There is also a
"Michael Sullivan"
listed
(see screenshot)
for 1783 and 1785.
He got the bourse too:
"IPC Leuven: scholarship John Sullivan".
Reasons to think we are connected to the family of the bourse:
-
[Pierce, 1957]
says the
Hickie family,
who descend from our O'Sullivans through
Mary Rahilly,
thought they were connected to Fr. John Sullivan:
"This family was entitled to free education at Louvain University, through a maternal line."
- However note that Fr. John's nephew
Florence Sullivan
also set up a bursary, for which any O'Sullivan was eligible.
Unless the family belief that they were entitled can be shown in practice,
it is not very convincing.
Fr. Mark not using the bourse when he went to Louvain
strongly implies there is no relationship.
Extract from
[Pierce, 1957]
with the story that our Hickies were entitled to the Louvain bourse.
The "O'Sullivan Mor" family
of the Dunkerron area,
near
Kenmare, Co.Kerry,
are the ancestors of the family of the bourse.
[Prendergast, part 4, 1899]
shows
Fr. John Sullivan's branch starting as follows:
-
Eugene (or Owen) Sullivan,
or O'Sullivan,
of Dunkerron, near Kenmare, Co.Kerry.
He was of the "O'Sullivan Mor" (or "O'Sullivan More") family.
[18th century Ancient History of Kerry, part 3]
says this branch was O'Sullivan More of "Cappanacoss".
This is Cappanacush, W of Dunkerron,
W of Kenmare, Co.Kerry.
[Prendergast, part 4, 1899]
says
Eugene was
father of the priest Fr. John Sullivan (born 1633) who set up
the O'Sullivan Bourse at
Louvain.
Fr. John Sullivan of Louvain and his nephew Fr. Florence Sullivan of Louvain are well documented, but the family surrounding them is not.
The ruin of the old O'Sullivan castle,
Cappanacush Castle, W of Kenmare, Co.Kerry, on
1887 to 1913 map.
The ruin of the old O'Sullivan castle,
Dunkerron Castle, Kenmare, Co.Kerry, on
1887 to 1913 map.
See photos.
An ancestral line was made out in 1912 for
Fr. John Ring
which
shows the claimed link between
Fr. John Sullivan of Louvain
and
Eugene Sullivan of Carhoomeengar near Kenmare.
The line was apparently worked out from oral tradition in 1912.
On the basis of this line, Fr. John Ring
successfully claimed
the O'Sullivan Bourse to be educated at Louvain.
The line as published in
[De Rís, 1997]
is as follows.
It does not seem very convincing, for the following reasons:
- The father of the priest is different to the one shown in
[Prendergast, part 4, 1899].
Not that that is totally convincing either.
- There are no dates or details. Supporting evidence needs to be gathered.
- To get from 1633 to 1815, there are not enough generations here.
--- O'Sullivan,
had issue:
- Cornelius O'Sullivan.
Father of the priest Fr. John Sullivan (born 1633) who set up
the O'Sullivan Bourse at
Louvain.
- Eugene O'Sullivan,
had issue:
- Boetius O'Sullivan,
or Boetious,
or "Buagh".
This became a Sullivan family name.
It might be after
Boetius (or Boethius),
the ancient Roman philosopher.
He
had issue:
- Cornelius O'Sullivan,
had issue:
- Boetius O'Sullivan, or Sullivan,
had issue:
- Eugene Sullivan,
or O'Sullivan, or Eoghan,
of Carhoomeengar, near Kenmare, Co. Kerry.
He married maybe 1815-20.
The original 1912 tracing for
Fr. John Ring.
From
[De Rís, 1997].
This is the whole thing.
There are no further details.
No dates or spouses or places or other details.
Our O'Sullivan family are not from the Kenmare area but rather from Meentoges, E of Killarney.
See note on
the wives of Morgan O'Rahilly and Fionn O'Rahilly.
According to our theory,
Fionn O'Rahilly probably married Mary O'Sullivan,
dau of Donal O'Sullivan of Meentogues.
The theory would be as follows:
-
Dónall O'Sullivan,
or Donal,
or Dónall Óg O'Sullivan,
of Meentoges, Kilcummin par,
E of Killarney, Co.Kerry
(see map).
He had issue:
- Mary O'Sullivan.
Possibly Nora.
She
mar Fionn O'Rahilly
[born est c.1710] and had issue.
Meentoges on
1829 to 1842 map.
The following O'Sullivan of Meentoges family must be related to the previous O'Sullivan of Meentoges.
(Two O'Sullivan/Sullivan families of Meentoges, both marrying into the same O'Rahilly/Rahilly family.)
As discussed above, it has been suggested that this family
is related to the family of
Fr. John Sullivan of Louvain
but there is no clear evidence.
---- O'Sullivan,
had issue:
-
Philip O'Sullivan,
born est c.1740,
of Meentoges, Co.Kerry.
[P102/207(4)]
says
our Philip
was of Meentoges.
His daughter married Michael Rahilly.
- Fr. Marcus O'Sullivan,
or Mark, or Sullivan,
born Meentoges [King, 1912],
born est c.1750.
Catholic priest.
He was
educ
University of Louvain, Belgium.
See entry
(and screenshot
and screenshot)
in
[Louvain database of students].
This shows he did NOT
receive
the O'Sullivan Bourse.
"Marcus O'Sullivan" of "Diocese of Kerry" in Louvain records.
He
matriculated (entered Louvain)
24 Jan 1770.
Listed as
"pauper".
This means he was exempt from some fees due to lack of wealth.
[Jennings, 1944]
shows that most Irish students were granted "pauper" status.
He
entered the Lily or Lis college (the Pedagogie du Lis).
List of Kerry priests abroad in 1770 shows "Mark Sullivan" in Louvain
[de Brun, 1985].
"L Arts"
(Licentiate of Arts)
Aug 1771,
"PM 133".
List of Kerry priests abroad in 1774 shows "Mark Sullivan" in Louvain
[de Brun, 1985].
MA
(Magister Artium, Master of Arts)
21 May 1776.
STB 1777.
He
returned to Ireland.
For sources for almost all of the following see
[de Brun, 1985].
Listed as a
P.P. in RC Diocese of Kerry in 1792 and 1794.
P.P. of the RC par of Firies
from 1797 to 1814.
The RC parish of Firies covers the civil parishes of Aglish and Kilnanare and Molahiffe, Co.Kerry
(between Killarney and Tralee,
some distance SW of Castleisland,
see map).
Firies itself
(also Fieries) is
in the par of Kilnanare.
Not to be confused with Fieries, Ballincuslane par
(SE of Castleisland, see map).
"Marcus O'Sullivan" is listed as P.P. of "Aglis" (Aglish, i.e. Firies) in 1797.
"Marcus Sullivan" is a P.P. in Kerry in 1798.
Listed as P.P. of "Molahive" (Molahiffe, i.e. Firies) in Killarney district in 1800 and 1803.
"Marcus O'Sullivan"
listed as P.P. of "Mullahive" (Molahiffe, i.e. Firies) in 1806-08 list.
He
died 1814, while still P.P. Firies
[King, 1912],
age est c.64 yrs.
Errors
Julia Sheehan
in
[P102/207(4)]
and
[P102/207(6)]
says that
her uncle Michael Rahilly's wife
was a niece of Fr. Mark O'Sullivan.
However
[P102/207(4)]
has errors:
-
[P102/207(4)]
says Fr. Mark was
PP of Currow.
However
[P102/207(6)]
says this is an error and it should be Firies.
Currow is a RC chapel in Ranalough townland, civil par of Killeentierna
(see map).
This is the church of the RC par of Killeentierna.
[de Brun, 1985]
shows that no O'Sullivan was ever linked to Currow or Killeentierna.
-
[P102/207(4)]
says that Fr. Mark was later PP of Ballylongford.
It says he
"was removed from Currow to Ballylongford".
However
[P102/207(6)]
says Currow is wrong, so this note is wrong too.
[de Brun, 1985]
shows Fr.Mark was never linked to Ballylongford or Tarbert.
The confusion must be with
Fr. Daniel O'Sullivan
or possibly with this priest:
- Fr. Michael O'Sullivan, born 1756,
P.P. of
Tarbert and Ballylongford 1782-1810,
see
[Lynch, 2008],
P.P. of Listowel
from 1810 to his death in 1829, see
[Gaughan, 1974],
died Listowel, 1829, age 73 yrs,
(todo) see Dublin Weekly Register, 30 July 1829,
see
[de Brun, 1985].
Fieries church on
1829 to 1842 map.
This was replaced by a new church to the NE.
See
1887 to 1913 map.
- Sources yet to be consulted:
-
Amhráin Eoghain Ruaidh Uí Shúilleabháin
(Songs of Eoghan Rua Ó Súilleabháin),
Rev. Patrick S. Dineen,
Irish Texts Series, Dublin, 1901.
The poet Eoghan Rua O'Sullivan was also O'Sullivan of Meentoges.
[P102/207(4)]
says our O'Sullivans of Meentoges are
"Owen Roe's people".
O'Sullivan entry in
[King, 1912]
says
Fr. Mark O'Sullivan
was
1st cousin of the poet.
[McCarthy, 1993, p.105]
apparently says that
Eoghan Rua O'Sullivan was
"born of a family that migrated from the Templenoe area".
Templenoe is the parish to the W side of Kenmare
(see old map).
Same area as both
"O'Sullivan Mor" of Dunkerron
and
Sullivan of Carhoomeengar.
- Eoghan Ruadh Ó Súilleabháin,
the Gaelic poet,
or Eoghan Rua O'Sullivan,
or Owen Roe O'Sullivan,
born 1748 in Meentoges.
See wikipedia.
[King, 1931]
says he attended the now-vanished Killarney college,
near what is now College St.
He
died 28 June 1784, age 36 yrs.
He was bur
Muckross Abbey.
[Prendergast, part 3, 1898]
says he is buried
in the tomb of the O'Sullivans of Meentoges,
which is
"at the head of McCarthy More's (now The O'Donoghue's) vault".
He is commemorated on the
"Four poets" plaque at Muckross Abbey.
He is commemorated on the
"Four poets" Monument in Killarney.
The O'Rahilly baptised his son Aodogán
after him 1904:
"Egan John Eoin O'Sullivan O'Rahilly".
Extract from Michael Warren's letter of 1906
[P102/207(4)].
He meets
Julia Sheehan
and she says our O'Sullivans are related to the poet Owen Roe O'Sullivan.
[King, 1912]
says that Fr. Mark is related to the poet.
[King, 1912]
says that
our Fr. Mark O'Sullivan
was granduncle of "the late" Marcus O'Sullivan of Firies.
Note that
these Sullivans
are apparently of Firies, and they have middle names "Mark" and "Marcus".
