Thomond - Thomond no.3

Thomond no.3

In 1929, James A. Jones and his mechanics built Thomond no.2 for Dick Humphreys.

Tommy O'Brien recalled Emmet Humphreys saying Jones was going to build another car after Dick's one. As far as we know, Jones never had plans to make any new cars without a buyer lined up. So, in 1930, when Jones undertook his most ambitious project to date, "a 4-door saloon made of metal", he must have had a buyer in mind. There is some thin evidence (below) that the buyer was John or Frank McMullan.

This is the one Thomond we have no photo of.

Dick Humphreys in 1963 article confirms the saloon car existed.
He says there were a total of four Thomonds, including "a 4-door saloon made of metal".
See full article.

Building the car

Benny Parsons did the metalwork in his spare time, utilising the extensive machinery by now present in Jones' garage. The most sophisticated of all the Thomonds must certainly have taken longest to make. All the bodywork was hand-built in the garage.

The car was worked on by coach painters John McNamara and Tommy McNamara. Their father John McNamara ran a coach painting firm in a paint shop at the back of Fennelly's undertakers, Dorset St, Dublin. In 1930, Jones contacted McNamara's to hand-paint the parts as they were made. McNamara sent his sons John McNamara junior and Tommy McNamara to Haddington Road.

John McNamara junior (Jacky) was born in Aug 1909. He recalled that Jones just wanted him for spraying (painting), not to help with building. He said: "I got cheesed off, they took so long to build them". His memory was that he left after a few days, less than a week, and he did not know his brother Tommy worked on it. But Tommy's memory was that he and John worked on it for some time. John said he never met Dick Humphreys (who was not involved with this car). Only Parsons and Jones were there when he went over.

John's brother Tommy McNamara (Thomas Joseph) was born in May 1912. He recalled working on the Thomond saloon car. He said that when they arrived at Jones', they found plans well advanced for the saloon. Benny Parsons would use days when business was slack to work on the car. Some days he would have too much normal servicing work to do, and the lads wouldn't be needed. Other days he'd show them a door, hand-beaten from metal, and the painters would set to work. The painting was a job just as skilled as the metalwork. All the scouring, priming and coachlining was done by hand.

Tommy McNamara said the Thomond was eventually spray-painted ivory and black in preparation for a visit by Sean Lemass. Lemass was a TD from 1924 and a leading figure in Fianna Fail in opposition, drafting their economic programme. Fianna Fail got into government in 1932 and Lemass became Minister for Industry and Commerce. Tommy recalled Jones saying: "Mr. Lemass is coming." He did not come while Tommy was there.

Michael Keating says the body was perforated sheet metal over a wooden frame. John McNamara says it was lead-coated metal (rust-resistant).

The McNamara brothers went back to other work at the family firm before the Thomond was complete. Tommy thought the Thomond was going to be a drophead (convertible). He said during the early stages the car resembled a Hamilton. John thought it was going to be an open tourer, and was under the impression it was the first Thomond. Neither John nor Tommy saw it finished.

Fennelly's undertakers, 125 Upper Dorset St, on p.1420 of [Thom's, 1930].
McNamara's coach painting firm was at the back.

Specification

Some of this information is from the sightings of the complete car by Paddy Doherty and Michael Keating.
The McNamara brothers saw various components but not the final version of the car.

Body:

4 door, 5 seater hardtop saloon. Rather a large car.
Metal coachwork (although the upper bodywork may have been fabric).
Fairly basic, staid family saloon. Low, squarish looking body. Straight back - no extending boot.
Shallow depth windows, twice as long as they were high. 2 windows on each side.
High back, smallish rear window.
Girder type chassis.
Wire wheels. Dunlop tyres.
Well-finished leather upholstery.

What it looked like:

Said to resemble a larger Riley saloon.
Michael Keating said it looked like a Riley Lynx.
Paddy Doherty said it looked like a Standard Ten.
It was also said to look like a Hillman Minx.

Colour:

Tommy McNamara said this Thomond was painted ivory (lower bodywork) and black (upper bodywork).
Tommy said they started with hand-painted trimming, but eventually spray-painted.

Logo:

'Thomond' written in straight, slanted writing on deep blue enamel plate on radiator top.

An idea of what Thomond no.3 looked like.

The car in the background of this picture of Thomond no.2, probably 1932-1933, looks a bit like how Thomond no.3 is described.
Could this be Thomond no.3?
Mike Worthington-Williams thought not: "It looks like a pressed-steel body, however, and if asked we'd have said it was an early Hillman Minx."
He said to me: "It appears to have a pressed steel body and I'm sure Thomond wouldn't have run to that. It looks more like a 1932 Hillman Minx or something similar".

An idea of what the front logo looked like.
Michael Keating said it was on a deep blue enamel plate on the radiator.

History

Tracing the history of the car is difficult. We have no registration number. According to the McNamara brothers, it was built in 1930. We have various sightings of what appears to be the Thomond saloon over the next number of years.

The Thomond saloon was seen around 1943 in Parsons' garage, Mespil Rd, by Paddy Doherty, a mechanic then working there.

Sighting by Jim Barr, around 1945/1946

Jim Barr said that George Molloy bought a second-hand metal saloon Thomond immediately after the war, around 1945/1946.
Barr's description of the car (below) sounds a bit different to the above. However Barr did call it a "Thomond" and he did associate it with Auto Maintenance Garage, Haddington Road, which is indeed the Thomond garage. (Jones had gone by this stage.) So it looks like this was a Thomond.
Barr said Molloy only had it for a few months. Molloy wasn't into it as an unusual car - he was just looking for transport.
Barr's description:

His memory was it had a Standard 9 or 10 hp engine. Standard chassis.
He thought it had a body built by John Mulholland (of Lower Mount St, Dublin) and was built in the late 1930s.
He said it was black/grey.
He said it was like a Riley Lynx.
Michael Keating did say the saloon car looked like a Riley Lynx.

Jim Barr remembered an upright saloon with a boot on the back.

John Mulholland listed at 8a Lower Mount St, Dublin, on p.1344 of [Thom's, 1940].
Jim Barr thought Mulholland built the body for this Thomond.

The death of George Molloy in 1961.
He was born in 1894. He qualified as a dentist. He married in 1916 to Bridget Jones.
He stopped practicing as a dentist before the war. He became a bookie.
He lived at 27 Herbert Place.
He did not keep the Thomond for long.

Sighting by Michael Keating, around 1946

A Thomond saloon car was seen around 1946 on the Lower Rathmines Road by Michael Keating.
Michael was a son of the painter Sean Keating. Sean knew James A. Jones well, having had a Harley-Davidson motorcycle which was serviced at Haddington Rd. He came into possession of many of Jones' old motoring books. (His son Michael inherited them.)
Michael had heard about the Thomond from his father, but found the story hard to believe until he saw one in the flesh.
The spot where it was parked was near the premises of McMullan Bros, auctioneers, 161 Lower Rathmines Road. This is thin evidence that the owner (indeed, the person it was built for) might have been Frank McMullan.

Sighting by Frank Biggar, around 1949-1951

Around 1949-1951, Frank Biggar was outside Dick Humphreys' shop in 36 Pearse St when he noticed an unusual car pulling in to park. It was Dick himself behind the wheel, so Frank, an acquaintance, asked him what car it was. It was a Thomond.
Some of Frank's description of the car (below) sounds a bit different to the above.
Frank remembered it as:

4 door saloon with a rounded back.
Dark in colour - probably black, but possibly navy blue.
He said it was a 'six light' saloon i.e. a window for each door, and two rear quarter lights.
He said its overall appearance was similar to an Austin 12/4 or 12/6 of about 1935.
Interestingly, he said it was 'way too modern' for 1930. It may be that there was a rebuild, or a second saloon car, or we have to revise upwards the date of building of the saloon car.
He knew it was built pre-war. He thought that Dick told him that.

The question is: what was Dick doing driving it? Dick's family did not remember seeing a Thomond so late. Maybe he had come across the owner, and asked for a spin around the block to see what the other Thomond was like. It's a shame he didn't photograph it.

I was told that John McMullan worked at one time at 182 Pearse St. If true, this might explain how the Thomond was there, and it might be evidence John McMullan was the owner.

The car Frank Biggar saw was something like this.